I was a guest on the Highly Sensitive Podcast with Lauren LaSalle.

I shared about how feelings work, along with tips for Highly Sensitive People.

Listen below or keep scrolling for the transcript.

Transcript

Lauren: Today my guest is somebody that has been on the podcast before. You might recognize her voice from episode 22, “Three Ways to Calm Your Nervous System as an HSP”. It is Joanne Kim.

Joanne is a therapist-turned Feelings Translator who helps Highly Sensitive Persons turn their BIGGEST feelings into their GREATEST superpower.

The people who work with her are often the first or only person in their family or communities to intuitively process and express feelings. Consequently, they are often judged or criticized so that they learn to people please, placate, or perform until they hit a wall. They're super familiar with anxiety, guilt, and shame, partly because of an allergic reaction to anger, their own and others’.

Often, the super responsible, empathic, and ethical person in their environments, they reach out to Joanne after they're already burned out, resentful in their lopsided relationships or sucked into their shame spiral. When Joanne shares about her approach to working with feelings the number one response she gets is,

“Why didn't they teach me this in school?”

Grab the free guide, The Big Feeler First Aid Kit, to learn how to navigate your feelings when they show up when you least expect or want them.

Joanne is amazing. She is so passionate about what she does and passionate about emotions and teaching people about emotions. So, make sure you check that out, as well.

In our discussion today, we talk all about feelings. She talks about how do feelings work for HSPs, what some emotional habits are for Highly Sensitive Persons. She shares a lot of practical tips. I think she said at one point that she could nerd out about this all day, and she really is just fantastic. She really, really knows what she's talking about. She is so much fun to talk to, and I hope you get a lot out of this episode, as I'm sure you will.

I got so much out of it. She shares so much information. I really needed to listen through it myself to remember more of what she talked about, because this episode is just packed full of great tips and information. I hope you enjoy it as well. Here is our conversation.

So nice to have you back, Joanne. I'm sure people will recognize you from your previous episode, hopefully. I'm glad you're going to be talking about feelings because I think that's a really big topic among everybody, but especially Highly Sensitive People. So, how do feelings work?

How Do Feelings Work?

Joanne: I would say that it's a lot like languages. Where it has its own vocab. It has its own grammar. If you think about kids, like young kids, and how they pick up language. Before they've gotten any formal training and all the exercises and things like that, some people are just really good at absorbing this particular language like a sponge.

They know it so well, they speak it very fluently and eloquently, but you ask them to teach someone else how to do so. Then they're like, I have no idea. So, a lot of what I do is to describe the actual mechanics of how feelings work first by describing how we tend to deal with our feelings.

Usually when an emotion comes up a lot of us are trained by society or have our own thoughts like, “NOPE, we're not going to do that here. It's too messy. It's too dangerous, too risky, unpredictable. So, I'm going to label this as a BAD feeling. I'm going to shove it aside. I'm not going to deal with it.”

…Only to find out that it doesn't actually go away. It's still there. We find that out a later event comes up and that feeling that we shoved aside before then piggybacks off of a new feeling that comes up and now they multiply.

Often when we as HSPs consider our feelings it's usually after crap has hit the fan. It's usually when things have turned sideways, things got messy, a single issue of like how a dishwasher got loaded is enough for some people to cry and then they judge themselves and all that kind of stuff.

How people tend to deal with their feelings is to label them as BAD and to shove them aside only to find out they're still there. They're going to show up. In terms of how feelings work, they're supposed to show up because the main function for our feelings is to tell us about our experiences and to tell us what we NEED. They’re messengers. They have a language of their own.

If a feeling comes up and we shoved it aside, because we don't know what to do with it it's kind of like when the delivery person comes around and we're like, “Oh my gosh, I can't take the package! You go away, go away.” They still have a job to deliver the package.

Like the Harry Potter mail system where the mail will find you somehow until the message is delivered. You can either receive the message and find out what it says or get chased by it, and then feel super frazzled and overwhelmed.

It's just that Highly Sensitive Persons are more in that realm of noticing things related to feelings, even though we might not understand it or necessarily know what to do with it.

Non-HSPs who tend to not nitpick on the details as much. They're often focusing more on the big picture. They also have feelings but because they're not as responsive to feelings when they come up it's as if they are more rational and HSPs are more irrational when what's actually happening is feelings have a logic of their own.

The ironic thing for HSPs who are labeled as being too irrational, too immature, whatever, it's just that that particular logic hasn't been accepted as valid. When Highly Sensitive Persons unpack how feelings are actually supposed to work, and maybe they're able to translate their feelings for other people for whom it's not their first language, that'll smooth out a whole lot of things.

The three steps I usually recommend is FEEL, REVEAL, and DEAL.

• FEEL the emotion

• REVEAL the need

• DEAL with the need.

If emotions are meant to tell us what we need, when we find out what we need, and when we address the need, the feelings have done their job. The package delivery person goes about their merry way. They've fulfilled their mission.

What we actually end up doing is three other steps of:

• FEEL the emotion

• DEAL with the emotion

• CONCEAL the need.

That process is what I call the Emotional Vortex.

People get stuck in this chaotic cycle of all these feelings escalating because they're not letting feelings do their original job. When we FEEL the emotion, DEAL with the emotion, and CONCEAL the need, we get stuck in this emotional vortex.

On the other hand, when we FEEL the emotion, we REVEAL the need, and then we DEAL with the need, not the feeling. Then the emotion kind of goes about their merry way, our needs get met, we're more content and more chill. Which is kind of what a lot of us were hoping for anyway.

When I explain these things to people a lot of the reactions I get from them is, why didn't anyone like tell me this before? It's like of the three steps, the FEEL, DEAL, CONCEAL, and then FEEL, REVEAL, DEAL. Two out of the three are exactly the same (FEEL the emotion).

It's just one difference in assuming that feelings actually do have an inherent good purpose. If we know how they work and we do according to how they're supposed to work, it's actually a very simple and smooth process. It's not easy, but it's very simple.

I love being able to help simplify a lot of these very ethereal murky areas that even with a dangerous emotion, like anger or resentment. There's actually a good logic and reason to it.

Lauren: The way you break it down, it does make it seem so simple. Why isn't this something that anyone talks about? I feel like feelings are coming out more in our society, like “feel your feelings” and all of this, and then it's kind of like, okay, cool. Now what? Just go to therapy? Which is great, too. I love that people are talking about therapy, but that's kind of where it ends.

Joanne: I really appreciate that in recent decades there has been more of an openness and acknowledgement that feelings are valid. But how they're valid I don't think we've quite clarified that yet.

I think these days, it's kind of like feelings are like fruit flies. Just let them happen and they'll be fine. It'd be okay. There are a couple of assumptions that come with that in that all feelings are basically the same, so there's no need to pay attention to different ones because they're basically all the same. Just learn how to let it be or learn how to let it go. Feel your feelings and then let it pass. It's better than before, than rejecting your feelings, but it doesn't quite get us to the next step.

My main mission is to help people recognize that emotions aren't just something to tolerate. It's actually something to harness. In the same way that two people can watch the exact same movie but have very different feelings and different interpretations. Each person's emotions actually reveals their individuality. Who they are as an individual, who they are as a person. What is unique to them. Their own giftings, their values, their purpose in life and things like that.

If we just consider all emotions as it's basically the same, we just need to learn how to tolerate it and let it go. We're actually missing out on a whole lot of really useful information that when we don't pay attention to it, we'll have to deal with it anyway.

That's what all of these existential life crises are about. When there's a breakup, when someone gets fired from work, when the kids leave for college, and you have all this time to yourself and now you're wondering what do I do with the rest of my life. When people really get in touch with their own emotions that reveals their individuality and learn to work with and not against their feelings, they actually can have a lot of clarity as to what to do going forward.

It's not just learning how feelings work so that you don't get stuck in the Emotional Vortex. That's only half the story. If someone doesn't get tripped up anymore, that's great, but then what?

The other half is to switch into what I call emotional flow. People have heard of things like being in a FLOW STATE or being in the zone, being in your element. It's kind of when people come alive where they do all these fantastic things. Like play - it doesn't take a whole lot of effort and energy, but so much happens and everyone else who watches that individual in a flow state they're also captivated by it. There's something pretty cool and supernatural that happens but everyone's different.

So, if I tried to be what you've been called to be, then it's not going to fit. And both of us might be miserable.

We're actually tapping into our own emotional world, getting to know our emotional habits, seeing which emotions tend to pop up more often and which ones often are still locked up in the closet. Then actually getting to know what our central values, our central needs are, so that when we actually nurture that part of us then we get into the flow state of everything feels so easy.

We're still dealing with hard life circumstances, but it feels like pain that's worth it. That's kind of like the term passion. We use it in multiple ways in that it's like something that someone gets so fired up about. They're so passionate about it. Technically the word means pain. It's like something that we care about so much so that pain feels worth it. It's worth putting in the effort. It's worth putting in all of our sacrifices. That's how valuable something is.

In order for us to tap into who we really are and live out of that place of deep meaning and authenticity, freedom, hope, all that stuff that Highly Sensitive Persons tend to want to think about anyway, but instead of just ruminating about it, it's like actually making them happen. Taking action on it, putting legs to it — our own emotions are the way to actually do just that.

I can nerd about this all day, but what's it like for you to hear that framework? Because it makes sense in my head, but I'd like to hear about whether that serves up anything new or if you have any questions about it.

Lauren: It makes sense to me, too. I really love it and I think a lot of people are going to kind of be mind blown. I feel like it's a different reframing of emotions that we haven't really heard before. I used to be a therapist up until recently and I hadn't even heard it exactly framed the way that you're talking about it, but it really does make sense.

Joanne: I wouldn't say that I've invented this framework. It's more like we see glimpses of it in different parts of the world. I think it kind of pops up here and there like a gopher. There's nothing new under the sun. It's really about whether or not we are open to receiving that message and then taking the ball and running with it.  

Lauren: Yeah. I wish this was something that was taught in schools. Can you come up with a curriculum like nationwide for schools?

Joanne: That'd be fantastic. And I'm really hoping to be able to close the gap a little bit more in my lifetime. That's my big life mission in helping people find and live out of their flow state. The how I help people do that is the feelings. I am building a school of feelings, if you will, because until this can be more regular of a curriculum in our existing schools, this will have to do for now.

The Emotional Habits of Highly Sensitive Persons (HSPs)

Lauren: What are some emotional habits for Highly Sensitive Persons?

Joanne: I would say there are three that come to the top of mind.

Habit #1: Navel gazing.

When HSPs tend to be very reflective and contemplating, like, the ethereal, meaningful things of life, and often the emotions tend to tinge more towards sadness or longing or maybe even anxiety. It's like trying to make meaning out of one's life, that kind of angsty stuff.

Those who are non-HSPs tend to not think about that as much until they're on their deathbed and they're looking back on their lives. But HSPs tend to overly do that all the time. So much so that they get lost in their inner world and they get disconnected from their actual day to day current reality. It's like everything outside is boring, ordinary, mundane, meaningless, shallow, whatever.

Navel gazing — it's not a bad thing, but it's easy for Highly Sensitive Persons to overdo that. As a way of balancing ourselves out or diversifying our options it is a good discipline practice for Highly Sensitive Persons to deliberately notice the simple things in life instead of getting distracted by the complex and complicated. Or focusing on the light, easy, even shallow things instead of trying to always draw some meaning. Sometimes a pen is just a pen and maybe that's okay as it is. That's Emotional Habit #1.

Habit #2: absorb other people's feelings

HSPs tend to absorb others’ feelings like a sponge and it's one of the greatest strengths for Highly Sensitive Persons. It kind of allows us to really show up for other people and lean in with empathy and that's like the lubricant of all relationships.

The flip side is that sometimes we get so absorbed into other people's realms that, ironically, even though we're navel gazing, we take on other people's stuff. Other people probably try to underly do their feelings. HSPs tend to overly do it.

What ends up happening is like this parasite-host relationship where there's this draw towards the other. Where the Highly Sensitive Person tends to also do the emotional work on behalf of other people because they've absorbed their pain, their feelings, their responsibility, and have given up their own power that the other person takes on.

You'll find a lot of cases that those who lean more empathic tend to be drawn towards people who are more assholes. That combination is very common partially because HSPs need more distinction and more boundaries to keep their stuff on the inside and to keep everyone else's stuff out.

Sometimes I like recommending people do a visualization of a bubble or a barrier. Where they check in with their physical body and ask the body, am I holding on to anyone else's stuff? Not thinking with our head, but allowing our bodies to speak up like, “I kind of feel this tension in my neck. What is this about?”

I don't have to understand what it is. I just need to acknowledge THAT it is. Let me visualize that as a color or as a fog or whatever. And let me extract it out of my body through the bottom of my feet or through the palm of my hand so that their stuff stays outside.

Is there anything else that belongs to me that I've given up and someone else has it like power or authority? I'm very squeamish. I don't want to take my own authority back but it's really important. So, let me visualize that as a color. Let's say someone who I feel like has stolen my voice. Let me visualize that coming back to me within my bubble and staying within my bubble. It's kind of like a sorting process. So that will be emotional habit number two.

Habit #3: “AIM, but never fire”.

In the focus on one's inner world and trying to make sure that however we live life is super meaningful and authentic we can get stuck in analysis paralysis, or imposter syndrome or procrastination, perfectionism and what have you that we're like constantly thinking about doing something, but never actually doing the thing. Because it feels more scary and there's a buildup of anxiety, guilt, shame, judgment, and all that stuff. The feeling that's actually necessary, but that HSPs are allergic to is ANGER.

Anger is a very powerful emotion. It's a very propelling emotion. It says,

• “This is what I want and I'm going to get it.”

• “How dare you get in the way?”

• “I'm frustrated that's not happening.”

Instead of shying away from anger and shoving it aside when we take back the power that comes with anger and say, anger tells me that I too really matter and what I want really matters and I'm not going to give up my power. I'm going to actually advocate on behalf of myself. It's a very championing feeling.

When we take back our anger — like gunpowder, firepower, raw energy — we propel forward, instead of pulling back with fear. We might find that the thing that we were so scared of is actually not all that difficult. All of that could have been resolved if we had just taken action.

Lauren: I feel like that's really, really common.

Joanne: It's a lot of sense. Like non-HSPs tend to FIRE and then maybe AIM later (if they do at all). So, it's not as if what HSPs are doing is bad and not as if what non-HSPs are doing is bad either. We just need both and it's kind of when we're polarized towards extremes where we're basically recreating this parasite-host relationship because we're underly acknowledging what's our stuff and we're taking on someone else's. Then vice versa.

So get back to our rightful size, take back our rightful power and authority.

We feel like we're being assholes when we advocate on behalf of ourselves, but in actuality we're so far away from that edge we could afford to increase their size a bit more. Operating the stress and the fear that comes with re-owning our anger is a pretty big part of our growth and healing process as Highly Sensitive Persons. The very thing that we're scared of is actually what we need more of. Sorry to tell all y'all.

Lauren: I love all of those tips. When I edit this episode, I'm just going to have to take all of this in because it's so much good information. I feel like it's so relevant and it's so good. My brain really needs to listen to this a few times to really process it all.

It's great.

Joanne: I have written this into blog form. There are a couple of options. I was basically trying to write a single blog about the emotional habits of HSPs and it just kept coming. There's no need for us to master all of it in one sitting anyway, it's going to be a lifelong journey.

Each of these things is not a criticism on how we naturally operate. It's just that our own giftings can be a double-edged sword. As long as we show up for each situation according to what the situation needs, not according to what we're used to, great! It's just, when we tend to try to resolve a problem that our strengths are not meant to resolve, that's kind of when we get stuck. Then we judge ourselves. We judge ourselves when we're down already. I'll send over the link to you with the four-part series. I think each blog has like four to six concrete tips or exercises. I mentioned one or two today. These are things that I share with people either in therapy or in coaching.

Lauren: I think all of your tips are just amazing.

Do you have any more tips that you want to share right now?

Big Feeler First Aid Kit

Joanne: I do have a guide called, “The Big Feeler First Aid Kit”.

The main pickle that it addresses is sometimes our feelings show up at the wrong time and then at the wrong place. The feelings aren't bad, but when they show up when we least expect it, it can get really confusing. And what do we do when we're confused? We panic and we shove it back into the closet. It's only a matter of time until the next situation comes up where they just kind of pop back up again.

To avoid doing that, the First Aid Kit gives us some options on what to do in that moment. Instead of saying, I'm not going to deal with this feeling, how dare I feel this way? Or like, what's wrong with me? And going down that shame spiral. It's like, okay, I acknowledge that this feeling is coming up. I don't know exactly why I feel this way right now, or what I'm supposed to do with it. So, let me make a promise with this feeling. I will come back to it at this time at this place. It's just not right now.

It's kind of like negotiating with their feelings. Just the main thing that we mess up is that even if we do that, we don't actually keep our promise. Then our feelings get mad at us because we broke our promise. The First Aid Kit gives us those three or four steps of how to have a conversation with their feelings in that snap moment where you get triggered in a work meeting, but you're not allowed to cry. Or you're in a party full of people and you don't want to withdraw and pull away completely. You still want to be present, but you're still not really sure what to do with these reactions that are coming up. The First Aid Kit breaks it down into smaller steps.

It highlights three particular feelings, anger, sadness, and fear. Those are three of the negative emotions. What each of them can signal. So instead of again, shooting in the dark or treating every feeling the same, you know, fruit fly. Let's pay attention to each feeling and the themes that they bring up. The more familiar we are with them, the more readily we can respond to them. If we're less familiar, we'll panic and we'll react. Better to prepare for war in times of peace, not in times of war. I highly recommend that people have a chance to get a little bit more familiar when they're calm and then get some practice under their belts instead of judging themselves for not being able to do it in the moment when they panic and shut down.

Lauren: Yeah, totally makes sense. I remember telling clients to do that, too. And they're like, huh, that's a great idea. I can just practice it for when I need it, instead of not remembering how to do it when I need it.

Joanne: That's great intentions. It's just when we're stressed we're switched onto a different part of our brain and it's as if we never learned that thing in the first place. So, when we're able to practice it's like any athlete who works out at the gym, exercising these different muscles. We want to make sure that we have muscle memory instead of just banking on our intentions. Cause when crap hits the fan that part of our brain completely shuts down and we don't have any access to it. But if we have muscle memory, I mean, the other day, I ended up driving to my old home. Like, I was completely unaware, but my body knew. That's the kind of mechanism that we can use to our advantage, even with our own emotions.

Another mini quick tip if someone wants to practice the emotion of anger is to practice opening up one's chest instead of hunching over and then staring dead straight without blinking. This might be very uncomfortable to do with another person, like, locking eye contact. But this is actually a good way to practice anger. This is why we find people who do that so intimidating. The direct eye contact and looking straight on instead of down or away or up. Basically, HSPs look everywhere else but the center. Unless they're looking at an object, that feels a little bit easier, but same idea.

It's like anger and desire, kind of flip sides of the same coin. It's like really pursuing something instead of what HSPs are prone to doing, which is to more like withdraw. This doesn't take a whole lot of fancy equipment. You can do this for free. But if you don't do it, it's going to be very expensive later in moments when you actually need to do it.

Lauren: Those are great tips. As always you come with plenty of great tips.

Joanne: I hope to have more regular conversations with people. I am kind of expanding beyond the traditional therapy space where sometimes things come up in session. I'm like, man, I really wish so and so also heard this because this was great. But, you know, confidentiality.

So, I’m trying out some other ways to keep this conversation going because the main issue that people have or the main obstacle that people run into when it comes to the realm of feelings is that everyone is trying to figure things out alone. Thinking that they're the only ones on the planet who feel this way.

You have a room full of people who all feel the same way that they're alone. That's really hard. That's really sad. If one person opened up. Imagine just how much healing and how much breakthrough that can happen there. I'm really wanting to make these kinds of conversations much more accessible and easy.

That is my desire.

Lauren: That seems really needed because I think there are a lot of people who feel alone and they feel like, it's just me. And it's really not.

Joanne: Yeah. If only we knew. But how will we get there if we don't open up? I tend to be a little bit more reckless than other people. So, if it starts with me opening up about how I do feelings, fine. But it took a lot of work for me to get here and I'm really thankful that I am here. I feel like this is more me paying it forward.

Lauren: I love that. That's kind of how I got to be where I am too, because of things I went through and then feeling like I need to pay it forward also. I think a lot of HSPs are like that. I love that about us.

Joanne: We're so fun. If only we could keep ourselves from getting stuck inside.

Lauren: I'm so glad that I started this podcast because I get to have people like you on here and all of my other guests who do get to open up and get to share things that they've learned about and things that they're working on and try to help other people with those same things. Hopefully this will spread all of this, things that you're doing, things that I'm doing, and we'll really connect with people and be able to help them.

How can people connect with you and how can they get that emotions guide that you were talking about too?

Joanne: Easiest way is to go to www.intelligentemotions.com/firstaidkit. It's like 10 or so pages, pretty quick and easy. A couple of the pages I intended to be a printout. It's kind of like a reminder. That's probably the easiest way. People will also be getting regular newsletters from me. Basically like those things that tend to come up in my therapy sessions. But I think these are universal tenets or truths that I think a lot of people can benefit from. I tend to draw Highly Sensitive Persons to me. A lot of those areas will involve how feelings tend to show up, for better or for worse, in our personal growth, in our relationships, in our professional journeys. For example, imposter syndrome. I'm really excited about doing a series on that sometime.

Lauren: That will be a great one, I'm sure.

Do you want to talk about your course a little bit?

The School for Feelings

Joanne: I am hoping to build a school specifically for feelings where there's basically an emotions 101 course, there is an advanced 201 course on how more complex or a combination of emotions show up in those areas of personal growth relationships and professional development with a feelings library of the different elective topics that people can choose whichever resonates the most with them.

I don't think that it's possible for everyone to learn the full extent of this in one sitting, one go. So, I intend for this to be a lifetime access because we have different things happening in different seasons of our lives. What we needed in one season is totally different from another. Also, with changes in stages of life or people getting married or death in the family or like midlife crisis, all that kind of stuff. So, I'm building this out as we speak and hope to have a classroom or a cohort type of arrangement, because I do feel like emotions are meant to be spoken in connections in the context of community. That's in the works. I'm super excited about it. This is probably my second or third round of it and it's been pretty good so far.

I am still coming up with a name for it. Might be something like “The Big Feelings Flow State” or something. We'll see, but grab “The Big Feelers First Aid Kit” and when that's ready to be announced, you'll have it right in your inbox.

Lauren: Wow, that sounds like such an ambitious project.

I'm just kind of blown away about how much you're really putting into this and creating a really awesome space for people that I've never heard of anything like it before.

Joanne: I hope that I am a case and point of what happens when someone's in flow state.

Technically I put in so many hours to this, but it feels like play. Because I feel so aligned with what really matters to me and who I am, it sometimes does feel like breathing. This happens to be my flow state, like everyone has their own. I wonder what might happen across the world if instead of getting caught up in our own and other people's emotional vortex processes, that if one person switches over into a flow state and then they get their time, energy, and headspace back so that they could devote it towards things that they really care about that can itself have its own ripple effect.

So, that is what I'm striving for. This is my contribution to the world.

Lauren: That is great. I love it. I think you're such an inspiration. I love that you're putting so much of this out there to help other people. And I think it will have a really big impact.

Joanne: Thank you. Looking forward to how it develops.

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Joanne Kim, Feelings Translator

Hi! I’m a therapist-turned feelings coach who helps Highly Sensitive Persons, Empaths, Enneagram 2s & 4s, etc. turn their BIGGEST feelings into their GREATEST superpower! 

They are often the first (or only) person in their family to intuitively process and express feelings; consequently, they are often judged or criticized so that they learn to people please, placate, or perform until they hit a wall. 

They’re super familiar with anxiety, guilt, and shame, partly because of an allergic reaction to anger (theirs and others').

Often the super responsible, empathic, and ethical person in their environments, they reach out to me after they're already burned out, resentful in their relationships, or sucked into their shame spiral.

The most common feedback I get from people when I share about how feelings work is,

"Why didn't anyone teach me this in school??"

Hence, I am building a school helping people work WITH their feelings so their feelings work FOR them.

Join the waitlist here and you’ll get details fresh off the press!